http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#comments Oh man, where do I start with all this shit? Everything is erupting all over the place. Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:54:06 +0000 en http://www.toseef.com/toseef-logo.gif http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#comments 116 25 toseef's logo http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#comment12 http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#2124 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:54:06 +0000 Harr
I just want to say as a gay person who has alot of faith in islam, i find it extremley difficult to feel that I understand all the commandments of religion and I truly feel there damage, except for being gay, because I just dont get it to be honest..ok dont hate the gays hate the acts, I dont get it what should I be doing? should i get married for the love of it, should my life be pale and unwillingly lived?, am I a victim or a monster??

Most importantly if muslims hates gays so much why dont they take the dam time to see what makes people gay instead of claiming we are just lieng or messed up and leave us to our demise..

Very difficult to trust fellow muslims when you are gay (at heart) cause you know that they would turn there back on you faster than a not so 'faithful' person.

And to the poster, why are you so obsessed with who do you get to call him 'you are not a Muslim'...if a person claims he is a muslim that should be good enough for you, advice on whatever you want but you just can't strip him off his title. Too bad?... ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#comment11 http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#899 Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:23:54 +0000 Bilal
Peace be upon you all. I have read all the above comments and points of view. In my view, one who is a Muslim is one who has faith in Allah Subhaanu wa Ta'ala, His Prophet Muhammad (saw), the Holy Books, Angels, Life after Death and divine destination etc.

Therefore, the kalimah tayyibah is the basis of ones entry into Islam. After that, it is between the person in question and Allah regarding his/her faith and actions.

Now being gay raises a question in terms of sin. The majority of scholars in Islam have appeared to declare it as a major sin in terms of "sodomy". The Arabic terms in the Holy Qur'an Majeed that are used pertaining to the People of Lut (Alaihi Salaam) are LIWAAT (Sodomy) and FAAHISHA (transgression).

Now, one must look at the context of this story. There are numerous ahadeeth (traditions of the Prophet Muhaamad saw and his sahaah ikraam) that have also been interpreted and classed in categories.

Firstly you need to understand that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is the only story in the Quran and Hadith on which the condemnation of homosexuality is based. However in certain research we have discovered that the act which Allah despised was not anal sex, but the abuse of sexual power and the act of penetrating a man without his consent. This is clearly evident when you read the story in the Quran with the history of Sodom and Gomorrah and the archeological findings which shows what kind of setup prevailed in Sodom and Gomorrah. So there is no basis in the Quran to condemn anyone on the basis of sexual orientation neither does the Quran (in the original Arabic text of it) condemn anal sex with consent.

Regarding the verdict by Ali that the two men who wanted to marry should be burnt, was based on what Allah did to Sodom and Gomorrah. However in the history of Sodom and Gomorrah we did not find any evidence that men had married each other to say the least. Also, the hadith is not found in the authentic section of Hadith and hence it is questionable.

This is only some of the literature considered. The people of Lut (alaihi salaam) used to commit all types of atrocities from male rape in public to inhospitality of guests, to robberies and gambling etc.

Furthermore, in order to understand the Holy Qur'an and to form tafaaseer (commentries), one must understand the Arabic language in much depth including its etailed grammar with its theological contexts. This means that a normal lay Arab cannot merely interpret it, as Arabs themselves do not know the complex grammar well. This needs an aalim who has studied for many years.

Now, from here, there are further problems. Aalims will also put their own bias into the matters. For example a heterosexual aalim will be against homosexuality already and a gay aalim will be bias towards it. One MUST be neautral towards this topic entirely to interpret it.

The following may be helpful:

http://www.mask.org.za/article.php?cat=islam&id=729

May Allah forgive me and any others for any wrong actions or writings. But it is time that the Islamic world acknowledged homosexuality propely and realised that it doesnt consist of men commiting animalisic anal penetration. It involves feelings, love and alot more. Furthermore, there are many gay Muslims in this worls who are practising and high in imaan, but are either closetted due to marriage/pressures from family to marry, or due to being scared of being victimised.

I hope this is of some help to people. And Allah knows best. ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#comment10 http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#482 Thu, 05 Jan 2006 19:10:22 +0000 Omar budgetfoucault.blogspot.com

Hi everyone,

I came across this conversation thread after searching for "gay muslim" on blogspot. Before I throw my two cents in, I should clarify where my bias lies. I am a gay Muslim (whether or not you agree with that concept, it is how I choose to self-identify).

I was glad to see above that some people had actually mentioned the Qur'an in their arguments against Homosexuality in Islam. The Qur'anic injunction against homosexuality comes to us from the story of Lot. In this story Lot tells his people (Al A'araf: 80-84) "Have you become so shameless that you commit such acts as no one committed before you in the world? you gratify your lust with men instad of women: indeed you are a people who are transgressors of all limits!" (this is the Muadudi translation for those who're interested)

This story repeats itself with no significant variation several times in the Qur'an. Regretably, (in my opinion) it would seem that the Qur'an is rather anti-Homosexuality. However, one could reasonably ask to what degree this story is simply a history lesson, and does not apply to contemporary society. I think such an argument is not really feasible, because the Qur’an often couches moral lessons in such historical anecdotes. So, it would seem that the Qur’an is unequivocally anti-Homosexuality.

Having said that, one should also ask to what degree Homosexuality represents the arch-sin in Islam. I think people tend to focus too much attention on homosexual acts. True, it is forbidden by Islam, but we cannot reasonably argue that people who commit homosexual acts cannot call themselves Muslim. One would not, for example, suggest that a Muslim who drinks is not a Muslim, or cannot call themselves a Muslim.

My own understanding of Islam and its prohibition of Homosexuality isn’t entirely based on a reading of the Qur’an. I know that my sexuality is not something that I can help. I can’t simply marry a woman (I think that’d be unfair for both of us). I feel, however, that this is between me and God. My conception of God is not of a being that relishes punishing for the sake of punishment. I’m banking on the fact that God will understand that I am human and weak, and will instead look to all the other good that I have done, and forgive me this trespass. I’m not willing to believe in a God who is so petty that he would punish someone for something they can’t change.

Ok, that’s all I wanted to say. I’m sure I’ve blabbered on too much. ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#comment9 http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#397 Sun, 30 Oct 2005 08:30:59 +0000 Sumaiya.z www.sumaiyazabwala.blogspot.com

This is a very interesting topic, I shall join in with my opinions once I'm free. ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#comment8 http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#391 Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:37:22 +0000 S www.blogger.com/profile/835490

you said in response to my earlier comment that "homosexuality is a different kind of sin".

i think that is a rather ridiculous response, followed up by an even sillier explanation (people may stop later on and ask for forgiveness). does that mean that if a gay guy asks for forgiveness just before he is about to die (whether you can imagine it or not isn't relevant), its all good, he'll be forgiven and welcomed into heaven?

by that logic, it still appears to be a forgivable sin and not one that gets you thrown out of islam.

the issue is FAITH, belief in Allah, in his Prophet etc - these are the fundamental requirements of islam. the kalma does not make any mention of sexual orientation - it does not go as follows: "i believe in one God and one Propher and heterosexuality" - congratulations! you are now a muslim!

and finally, if someone wants to carry on thinking that they are muslim (in spite of their unislamic actions), why does it bother you or anyone else?! like i said earlier, you aren't god - only he can decide whether a person is muslim or not, good or not, worthy of paradise or not (remember that prostitute who rescued a dog went to heaven?). ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#comment7 http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#390 Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:15:11 +0000 Sana ive always wondered if its in r control or not.if it isnt then y has He forbidden homosexuality? shodnt he understand that one didnt have a choice? if it is in ones control,then y doesnt one change to please Him?
if u look up the issue of women in Islam in the Quran,He has clearly talked abt wives,their rights,hakmehir,mehram namehram, divorce,inheritance.there r pages an pages of this. and not a single word if its ok for a man to be with or marry another man?! (or a woman with another woman for that matter)
did He forget to mention it? did He think we wod understand wat he means an read between the lines?? did He think the interpretors wod do a good enough job?
jon look at the obvious first (in case of Hazrat Looth) an then maybe,agar humay Allah itni tufeeq aur foresight de,between the lines ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#comment6 http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#389 Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:04:40 +0000 Jon www.blogger.com/profile/3406299

Being a murderer or committing suicide required free will. Homosexuality is out of your control.

And Sin's entire argument is that when the story of Lot is narrated in the Quran, those people are condemned not for their homosexuality as it is popularly interpreted, but because of them forcing their will on other people (kinda like rape ? ). ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#comment5 http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#388 Fri, 21 Oct 2005 02:18:25 +0000 Sana an there r no 'possibilities' in Islam,Sin.one cant be a muslim and a jew,right and wrong,muslim an gay??..i dont know,coz then again there r muslims who r murderers,muslims who commit suicide,when we all know that ISlams against all these acts. but i agreee with u that Islam is about a personal relationship between Allah an oneself,for its only Him who knows wats in r hearts and r intentions even before we know it ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#comment4 http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#387 Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:37:14 +0000 Anonymous
Please consider the following:

If Islam is meant for all of humanity, and homosexuals are a part of that set. Then isn't it meant for homosexuals too.

Its simple logic. I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

- Dorian ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#comment3 http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#386 Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:03:57 +0000 Bbcd www.blogger.com/profile/8212397

pinniy: again i agree with sin *damn it, i feel like his little cheer leader of something* lol Yayyee Sin *waves pom pom* *ahem*

But i reply to you question...

"What if someone doesn't do anything Islamic at all, is it still ok to let them carry on thinking they're Muslim?"

... who are you jaan, to take away there right to have faith? ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#comment2 http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#385 Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:42:30 +0000 Sin www.venialsin.com

"Kinda disagree, they (molvi's and aalims) are the ones who have memorized the Quran word for word and know all its meaning. If not them, then who?"

That's where you genuinely miss the entire point of Islam. They may well have memorised the Quran and all the Hadith and recipes for pancakes into the bargain, but at the end of the day, Islam has ALWAYS been about a personal relationship between a person and Allah, with no one else entitled to step in and declare anything valid or not.

You want a bottom law, it's fairly simple: the Quran doesn't actually explicitly speak out against or for any form of sexuality (gay, straight, or bi). If you assume that there's nothing said against being gay, then QED, being gay and Muslim is a possibility.

Also, if you're confused about what I wrote re: having faith, read the entire sentence again. I may have mistyped something, but I'm fairly sure that it's just my verbose writing style that may have tripped you up. ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#comment1 http://www.toseef.com/200510-my-response-to-gay-muslim#384 Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:55:43 +0000 Jon assholeroommate.blogspot.com

<< Forget my interpretation of Islam; I wanna know what the bottom line is - is being gay accepted in Shariah Law or in the Quran? >>

No matter how much of a united front ANY religion poses, the bottom line is that everyone has their own individual interpretations.

Sin mentioned arguments which showed that going by a certain interpretation, being gay should be no problem in Islam. Ask any other person and you'll get a different opinion.

<< Ay, I have also heard about molvi's abusing kids. I reckon this is only a small minority and does not reflect the actual situation. >>

It reflects EXACTLY on the actual situation. Believe me. I know. Firsthand.

<<< My molvi sahib (oh so many years ago) used to say that if a roza is missed on purpose without a valid reason and he/she does not ask forgiveness and make up for it, it can be said they are not Muslim until they take necessary measures. >>>

With all due respect, he was an idiot. ]]>