http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comments The controversy is about a Muslim support teacher named Aishah Azmi being suspended from her post at Headfield Junior School, Dewsbury Tue, 14 Nov 2006 22:09:23 +0000 en http://www.toseef.com/toseef-logo.gif http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comments 116 25 toseef's logo http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment43 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#1047 Tue, 14 Nov 2006 22:09:23 +0000 Shaz http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment42 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#1005 Fri, 03 Nov 2006 04:03:15 +0000 Mariam
No offense intended but lot of people (including Non British Muslims too) are agreeing that Muslim immigrant community is not paying their share to the society. They are creating a situation where second and third generations are inclining towards radical religion. Though I think the European countries too are at fault for not doing enough to integrate them. Minorities are discriminated routinely on the basis of color and social status. Here in the US the people who are on welfare (social assistance) too unable to break poverty cycle and have ill feelings for the administration for their misfortunes. So I thought maybe since most of them felt to be outcastes by the society so that’s why they are turning their energy towards such petty and useless issues. As we all know poverty breeds hopelessness and even worst crime. I guess after few bombing incidences in the west people are pointing the finger at their defective upbringing which led some sick minds to use European citizens for their inhumane agendas. I’ve been to England and I know sometimes it’s not possible to live a free life due to social pressure as some families had to make their girls to wear Hijab otherwise they’ll be consider loose and who wants to marry such a girl.

Great minds do differ ;). ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment41 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#999 Thu, 02 Nov 2006 14:19:39 +0000 Beeamma www.beeamma.blogspot.com

*does a double take*
*rubs her eyes*

*walks off befuddled*

;) hehe ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment40 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#998 Thu, 02 Nov 2006 13:01:27 +0000 Piniyini
After a lot of thought I'm beginning to have a different view on this, maybe she should have removed the veil especially when attention was drawn on her on a national level (i.e. the press) and that way she would have saved the muslims a lot of bother. ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment39 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#990 Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:14:23 +0000 Beeamma www.beeamma.blogspot.com

Ok ok i see where everyone is going with this. We are all being very pedantic with our words. Ok so how about, if islam doesn't really require us to wear the veil, then her argument goes flying out the window? Because then it becomes a matter of "rights". she wants the "right" to cover her face when a male colleague is around. Now i understand that and i agree with all you people, maybe she should be given the right to do that....women on the streets are, so why not her? The only thing i can say then is that there must be more to the case than meets the eye. Again, and i know this will frustrate you piniyini (am sorry!!) but she is in a school!!!!!! Thats like saying....oh i want the rights to wear a mini skirt to school in a class as their teacher. Now before everyone starts jumping up and down saying thats a shit example, cos one is clearly indecent, and one is clearly decent (And i agree with you) but the point to my point is that there is an acceptable dress of code in school, and maybe this lady should stick to it. In the end she ended up drawing ridiculous amounts of attention to herself, veil or no veil, so what really was the point?
And if this is purely a battle of rights and not of what islam requires us to do, then would you be happy some male teacher teaching your daughters with a mask on his face? ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment38 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#989 Tue, 31 Oct 2006 07:04:33 +0000 Piniyini
The simple answer is, if it doesn't affect her job (in this case teaching), then yes she is allowed to wear a "mask" (as you put it).

About your off topic comments, though it may be true (I can only give you my opinion), why bring up something like this? Are we going to bring up comments such as these everytime a Muslim wo/man is in the news?

I'm getting an eerie feeling about this and where this is going (and no, it's not because halloween is approaching). ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment37 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#988 Tue, 31 Oct 2006 02:28:58 +0000 Mariam
I should rephrase my comment.

Let’s keep religion aside as it doesn’t matter veil is required by some religion or not.. Toseef is there any incident where a masked wo/man is allowed to teach kids in England schools? If so then this lady has every right to go on and sue the school district for firing her.

Though this is slightly off topic but I hear UK Muslims are very hard to integrate and they are ghettoized and most of them are on some kind of social assistance and live in poor neighborhoods. I know things get tricky when underprivileged citizens of some country are targeted as all of them feel victimized.

BTW, education is free in England and after certain age govt. provide stipends for low income family kids

http://www.dfes.gov.uk/financialhelp/ema/index.cfm?fuseaction=content.view&CategoryID=93&ContentID=112 ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment36 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#987 Tue, 31 Oct 2006 00:42:35 +0000 Piniyini (toseef[at]gmail.com)
My opinion is still the same as I have said in my previous comments (see #11 and #13) and I’ll reply to the comments that followed after.

#14 Bee – as I said earlier, in comment 13, a school and a hospital are two different entities. In regards to the situation you described, yes I do agree that they should have had disciplinary action however I also feel it has nothing to do with this matter dwelling it irrelevant.

>> I feel strongly about this, its unreasonable to expect to be in a non Islamic state, and want them to conform

That’s like saying Sikhs shouldn’t wear a turban because they’re not in India! This is not about the UK being an Islamic state or not, this is about her rights as a British citizen.

>> This teachers argument that she was caught "unawares" by a male teacher makes me raise my eyebrows

In #13 I said male interviewer and not male teacher, and yes I do agree her it does weaken her case. Care to share your opinion when I asked
>> Then again what if a woman who is working as a teacher has a renewed strength in faith that she begins to wear a veil would they suspend her too?

So you think we don’t have freedom of speech? I don’t see why when people like Nick Griffin (head of BNP) can get away with touting the boundaries of UK law and get away with it. We clearly have freedom of speech.

I don’t know why people are linking this to what if she was in a different country (in a so called “Islamic” one). We all know all the shit that takes place in these countries is in everyway opposite to what the holy Quran teaches us, so let’s not compare how her situation might have been in some other country. We all know we came to western countries to take advantage of the standard of living and way of life, and like B said, we also do return the favor.

>> but we must first look at our own islamic states and see what they allow/don't allow us to do before expecting a place like England to let us do it!

No, why should we look to our “Islamic” states before we do anything? The only state we need is the Quran and you know what they say, it’s the only book that can guide us properly untill the end. Anyway, I personally don’t think there is a true Islamic state.

I’m going to try to make this comments as quick as I can so forgive me if I appear blunt. The girl wearing the cross who was told to remove it is suing BA and about the police thing, don’t get me started. If they seriously did consider that you know there would be loads of “new muslims”. Moving on to B’s other comment (from #17)

>> fair enuf infront of a male colleague thats acceptable

… and that is all she was doing. Wearing her veil if she was present with a male teacher and removing it otherwise.

>> b) Dont expect so much of a country thats not an islamic state

>> B is probably my bigger point.

Once again I have addressed these issues above (there is no real Islamic state!)

#21 Mariam, I will jump down to your main argument.

>> what about other people’s right when they feel uncomfortable among veiled person. Would you sit beside a GUY whose face is hidden behind a mask? I know I wouldn’t.

Their only right is to sit somewhere else; there is nothing they can do about it. Hell, you can even go about your daily life with a paper bag over your head if you like, and no-one can do anything about it (not legally, yes I know not the best example but you get my point).

# 23 Beeamma – I agree with your sayings in this comment although not relevant to this post or basis on which they suspended her.

Sarah, some excellent issues raised. By my knowledge you are correct in saying covering the face is not a requirement (that is why I did not say this earlier). If people like Shahid Malik had said what you have, about drawing attention to herself, I would say he had a valid point. If he had asked her to abandon her case on that basis I feel that would be ok.

In regards to how you think about how “Muslims are abusing their rights in the UK and trying to turn it into Saudi” she is not abusing her rights but expressing them to the fullest. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. If there was no Freedom of Rights Act I can assure you there wouldn’t be as many people living here as there are, Muslim or not.

As I’ve said a before in this comment, I don’t like how some of you are comparing this to other countries. This is one of the examples of why people migrated to western countries, to get away from the hardships suffered and to live in freedom.

At the end of the day this lady wants to cover her face (for whatever reason) and she can do that. If it affects her job then they can suspend or sack her, and she can dispute this in the courts if she wishes. It just seems the media have got hold of a sensitive and unfamiliar topic to them and have escalated it further than need be.

I’m probably not going to reply any further on this as it would mean me repeating myself and I don’t want to do that. If there is anything in particular about my opinions regarding this that you want to discuss feel free to email me and I will address you privately.

If I have not replied to any your comments it most likely means we’re on the same brain-length, e.g Rio, Asma, Sobi, and G-unit.

Ps: I know I may come across harsh on this so just to let you know I have nothing against any of you guys. ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment35 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#986 Mon, 30 Oct 2006 19:38:53 +0000 Asma http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment34 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#985 Mon, 30 Oct 2006 19:01:15 +0000 Beeamma www.beeamma.blogspot.com

I dunno, i think toseef mentioned that she hadn't worn it to the interview because she was "caught off guard" she didn't know there would be a male interviewer apparently. Would have thought she would have carried a veil around with her don't you think? I mean if she is that strict about it ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment33 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#984 Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:41:33 +0000 Asma how do you know she had not worn a veil to the interview? because as far as i know she had been wearing it from the day she started work at that school and it was only few weeks later when they started having a problem with it, this is why i was suprised to why it became a problem for them after and not from the begining when whomever employed her! ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment32 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#981 Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:54:43 +0000 Beeamma Britain may be a multi-cultural society, but its not an islamic one. Live with it, or go back to Saudi (where you really won't have any rights!) ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment31 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#980 Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:51:26 +0000 Beeamma Rio, dude, it doesn't look like you have been living in england very long mate. I am afraid i didn't really understand half of what you said in your sentences so i can't really comment on them but i find it rude that you laugh and mock sarah for someone trying to "sell her england". Public education is FREE in england. Even at university (uptil now anyway) your local authorities pay for you to go. And plus the NHS is free. So seriously, i really do not get what some of these monkeys complain about.
I would like to ask Rio if he has even had an education in Britain please?
Plus there is nothing wrong in coming to a country to take advantage of its opportunities. At the end of the day, they benefit from us too. To say you decided to come to england because you have a right to cos they did the same to us, is frankly.....well im just gonna leave it at that, i dont want to get into an argument. ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment30 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#976 Sun, 29 Oct 2006 21:21:28 +0000 Asma
no offence to the people who are against supporting this sister, but to me it's like your saying because she's British she should not expect people to be happy about it, well she's not exactly expecting evryone to be happy she just wants to get on with her job and be granted equal opportunities as other staff, regardless of her face being covered! Is this to say in another country; with majority of Muslim population, they would suspend women for not covering! ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment29 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#975 Sun, 29 Oct 2006 20:49:28 +0000 Rio
The British in my personal opinion good for India, if they ruled there would be no corruption like we see today. India would be doing really well but then again it aint my country and its only my opinion like ive said.

Lets get back to the point, a girl in veil teaching ok? not wearing the veil!

If i had to interpret, it so called "sounds" that you are bringing up the topic not wearing veil at all from your previous comments which no one in the UK has even addressed. ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment28 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#974 Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:51:08 +0000 Sarah
and as far as i know, public school IS free in England (perhaps there's a minimum fee). you COULD argue that it's free in pakistan too, but had you studied at 'naee roshni school', you wouldn't be amongst us, firing away at a keyboard and typing in English!

your parents had a RIGHT to come to Britain?! so because the british behaved like neanderthals in the 20th century and colonized India, its your turn now?

ahh...it all unravels and begins to sound more like revenge than a true love for religion. ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment27 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#972 Sun, 29 Oct 2006 17:44:20 +0000 Rio
Unlike yourself i didnt come to this country to take opportunity, my parents came here as it was their right to (British ruled and still own parts of the place they cmae from)

Also i dont believe all this writing written on the net, as you will know all sorts of people could be writing here, consult an alim or a few for your satisfaction.

Its like sarah could write education is free in UK and you can believe that if you wasnt born in England.

I think Pinyni answered all your commnets well before. ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment26 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#971 Sun, 29 Oct 2006 17:37:36 +0000 Rio
how can you use the word extreme in this? we certainly dont want it to be a Saudi i can assure you that! I dont want to comment on that, if you know Saudi from inside you will know what im referring to.

Free education? lol who you been talking to Sarah? haha someones been trying to sell you England and i find that really funny.

Dont believe everything people tell you and what you see in the news. ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment25 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#970 Sun, 29 Oct 2006 11:44:45 +0000 Sarah www.my-soliloquy.blogspot.com

A bit late to the debate, but offering my perspective anyway, as a person who lives in the Middle East:

As far as i am aware (and i've read various translations of the Quran), covering the face is NOT a requirement. in fact, if i remember correctly, the key is to dress modestly and cover your bosom, all private parts, ensure you don't draw attention to yourself etc. in fact, interestingly enough, a discussion on Islam raised the point that in cases (like a secular/foreign country) where you stand out wearing a veil, it is better to abandon it, because you end up attracting more attention (and the key point in Islam is to refrain from doing just that).

Anyway, i find it pretty ridiculous that this is a debate at all because frankly, I doubt that this girl would be offered a job in any school, even in the middle east (unless it is strictly a school for Muslims only). She would not be able to work as a receptionist either. Believe me, I know, as i work in the recruitment industry and the hiring of any male or female depends a lot on their personality, their appearance and their interpersonal skills. Once you cover your entire face, you do not look 'friendly' or approachable at all. And teachers MUST look approachable. I would even go so far as to say, especially as far as children who do not come from Muslim backgrounds are concerned, the whole covering of the face with a black cloth may even be a bit scary. Would i want my child taught by a woman or man who is masked? My child will never see a look or smile of approval!

And I complete agree with Beeamma and Mariam. You can’t beat the ‘freedom of speech’ and freedom to do what the hell you want drum unless you’re willing to put up with criticism as well. There is very little religious freedom in the Middle East, especially in Saudi. In fact, whether you’re Muslim or not, you HAVE to cover up in Saudi. If this girl wishes to follow an extreme version of her religion or rather, her own interpretation of Islam, she should be doing it in an environment where it is acceptable i.e. either an Islamic school in UK or an Islamic country. I absolutely loathe how Muslims are abusing their rights in the UK and trying to turn it into Saudi. Almost ALL originally from 3rd world countries and instead of appreciating the FREE education and healthcare, welfare etc., they want to cry about covering their entire face! Or take to the streets over cartoons or stupid remarks made by Jack Straw or the Pope. Do they have ANY idea what their lives would have been like, back in Kashmir, Pakistan or wherever they come from?

If we do not allow bikinis on our streets in the Middle East or Pakistan, or even force non-Muslims to cover up (in Saudi) (the muttawas flog you for showing your ankle!) why should we be offended when they merely (and politely) ask us to leave our faces uncovered? ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment24 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#967 Fri, 27 Oct 2006 01:50:41 +0000 Mariam
"Just doesnt seem right hearing this from a fellow muslim, all these people who die without imaan are our responsiblity and we will be asked on the day of judgement why we didnt invite them to the true religon?"

No personal attacks please and now you are off the hook since you tried.

Don't you think - The same west that gave you the right to live and preach freely gave me and others the right to refute it and that's what we are doing.

BTW, I came to the west with my free will to take advantage of its opportunities and freedom and I’m glad I’m taking full benefit of it.

For further info. about my way of thinking read
http://politeindian.wordpress.com/2006/10/19/embrace-our-culture-or-leaveis-that-what-it-is/
and see what I've written in the comment section.

P.S. I see there no new ideas are coming in so it's time to move on. ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment23 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#965 Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:53:12 +0000 Beeamma About the point about comma and full stop, im not sure what you were referring to.
And mariam, i could give you a hug right now, yes so many people are on benefits over here, cuss the system anyway, and want MORE RIGHTS! Its ridiculous!!!
As for supporting anyone, i refuse to support anyone on the basis that they are muslims, or my family, or my friends. I try to be as fair as possible, if i feel someone is wrong, i will say it whether they are black white pink yellow, jewish hindu muslim christian sikh, whatever. Thats what islam teaches us.
We want people to be tolerant towards us whereas we are some of the most intolerant ppl ever. The whole prophet cartoon thing for one, i had many issues with it. Astaghfirullah it was bad, it was awful and cartoonists shouldn't have done it. Does that mean you ban danish products, burn down their embassy, hold plaques above your head calling for the beheading of these people?!?! Its so ridiculous!!!! And what my problem is that when cartoonists make fun of jesus we never bat an eyelid, he was our prophet too, and if we are not supposed to make differences between prophets (its in the quran, details will follow later) then why don't we respond like that in those circumstances? ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment22 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#964 Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:34:26 +0000 Rio
We should try an explain the importance of wearing a veil to non-muslims rather than agree with what they say. It aint their fault as they dont have knowledge, but we do dont we?

Remember islam is all about giving dawat, it started in Saudi Arabia and it spread across the World. Your just saying go to another country, the people at the time faced many hardships but kept the imaan strong.

Just doesnt seem right hearing this from a fellow muslim, all these people who die without imaan are our responsiblity and we will be asked on the day of judgement why we didnt invite them to the true religon?

Maybe this is an opportunity to make an effort in these circumstances? As muslims it is important to have knowledge about situations such as this, unfortunatly i dont to take actions but then i aint gonna not back this sister. ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment21 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#963 Thu, 26 Oct 2006 02:25:04 +0000 Mariam
I mentioned about performing Hajj without Veil just to support my point that Veil is not mandatory in Islam as people are performing Hajj since the Prophet times and not many things has changed in the way it performed. If Veil was mandatory surely women have started wearing it after the advent of Islam.

Let’s keep this discussion for another time and another place.

As far as I know most British Muslims of Pakistani origin are on some kind of Social Assistance which is only possible from the system which is based on profit and loss. In Islam one is not allowed to do business with anyone if interest is involved. Now people wants women to follow Islam but one never heard a Muslim Men rejecting social assistance as it is against the teaching of Islam.Why there is so much conflicting attitudes? I know most Imam is from Middle East like this guy
http://lightnessofbeing.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/letter-to-the-imam-who-gave-a-short-khutbah-last-night/
and I guess they’re too quick to preach their form of Islam and some confused Desi’s are following it as they haven’t done their prerequisite reading of Quran. That’s why they are making girls to wear Jilbab while any modest dress would fulfill dress requirement.

At this link Author gave some damn good points about Veil.

http://politeindian.wordpress.com/2006/10/19/embrace-our-culture-or-leaveis-that-what-it-is/

Let me summarize my comment that yes that girl has right to wear whatever she wishes whether her religion demands it or not but what about other people’s right when they feel uncomfortable among veiled person. Would you sit beside a GUY whose face is hidden behind a mask? I know I wouldn’t. ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment20 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#962 Thu, 26 Oct 2006 02:15:41 +0000 Mariam
Then you are in a wrong country. If your religion is the most important thing then what are you doing in a Secular Society. Aren't you violating their rights? ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment19 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#958 Wed, 25 Oct 2006 23:06:10 +0000 Beeamma www.beeamma.blogspot.com

Sorry one last point toseef....you mentioned that no one says anything about sikhs turbans or hindus tikkas, well actually no one says anything about the muslim SCARF. No one says anything about the jilbaab. The only problem is with the nikaab part. And only in certain circumstances. ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment18 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#957 Wed, 25 Oct 2006 23:05:21 +0000 Asma oh n just a reminder; please dont try and change a sentence where Allah has already put a full stop, shaytaan will try and put a commar, but us Muslims should stick together and never let that full stop change, this might be a silly example, but my wise uncle made me understand this way, and a freind also made me realise that majority of the times us Muslims make more difficult for our sisters and brothers in Islam as it's us muslims who are not uniting and helping by crticising her, bless her she is only following the commandments from Allah! ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment17 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#956 Wed, 25 Oct 2006 23:03:52 +0000 Beeamma www.beeamma.blogspot.com

can i just point out quickly, im not against the veil at all. I thought jack straw was a dick for saying he made women remove it because of "communication issues" Like i said, theres a place for it, i don't think schools is one of them. not if you are wearing it in class i mean, fair enuf infront of a male colleague thats acceptable. I have realised it may seem i am going back on my argument. What my general gist is that
a) don't dupe people into letting you into institutions by not wearing the veil at interviews
b) Dont expect so much of a country thats not an islamic state

B is probably my bigger point.

Good night and god bless. Interesting post :P :)
Shabba Khair people! ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment16 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#955 Wed, 25 Oct 2006 22:57:43 +0000 Asma surely that is against the school policy somewhere as i work in schools and i know every school has an equal opportunity's policy! ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment15 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#954 Wed, 25 Oct 2006 22:57:28 +0000 Beeamma www.beeamma.blogspot.com

oh and eid mubaraks!!! hehe, naa i didn't watch any movies, we had people come over, bhai ka rishta pakka hua, so all in all a nice day. Had to go into my gp practise and run clinics all day long till 6pm tho!! how about you? ]]> http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#comment14 http://www.toseef.com/200610-dewsbury-veil-row#953 Wed, 25 Oct 2006 22:56:03 +0000 Beeamma www.beeamma.blogspot.com

I can hand on my heart say that my opinion would be the exact same. The girls i was talking about didn't have a negative impact on us in any way, we didn't get treated any differently for being muslims.....i just thought it was a ridiculous thing to expect. Even recently the dean of our university sent a mass email out because a bunch of girls refused to have a male student supervise them in clinical skills teaching (which is what he is trained and being paid to do) and i thought it was gracious of her to send a polite email out telling people its not correct and if there are any particular issues she is not aware of can they please make her aware of them. Personally i think they should have been kicked out without a second thought.
I feel strongly about this, its unreasonable to expect to be in a non islamic state, and want them to conform. This teachers argument that she was caught "unawares" by a male teacher makes me raise my eyebrows. If she thought she may have had a male teacher around and felt strongly about it she should have worn it anyway. You say that we should have freedom to practise our religion, but get real, we don't have freedom of speech here as much as they would like to think they we do! And freedom of speech and freedom of religious expression are a hundred times more surpressed in places like pakistan. For example, do you have any idea how much persecution of christians, shias, and ahmadis happens in pakistan? Yes it would be ideal if we could express religious freedom here, and yes we should have the right to do it, but we must first look at our own islamic states and see what they allow/don't allow us to do before expecting a place like England to let us do it! And its not just us, as i said some girl even got told to remove her cross, i didn't hear about her sueing anyone. You made the point about hijab, i wasn't making a point about that, the hijabis were spared. I don't know if you read in the news, but recently the police thought it would be best in the spirit of Ramadan to not arrest muslims (Criminal ones) during ramadan. Of course this never happened cos even muslims thought that was ridiculous, but hey don't you think we deserve to give these people a little bit of a break? The way its going at the moment, the way we respone like idiots, standing with our banners saying we should behead all ppl that say anything against our prophet, we will end up like france, religious signs of any kind will be banned, and these people will end up leaving the country. im just saying they should do it now, save everyone else the hassle. Sorry if this is blunt, but im tired of this debate now, and i really do think we take the piss sometimes! ]]>